Tuesday, December 29, 2020

"Privies & Prohibition" - Gray, Maine - 1921 Report of the Superintendent of Schools

The West Gray District #4 school students are shown here in 1918-19.
The teacher is Josephine Davis, back row, third from left.
Two years later, in the 1921/22 school year, West Gray School
only had 8 students, which was below the state minimum for
a rural school to remain open. North Gray School only had 8 
students in 1921/22 as well.
Image from Gray Historical Society

     This post includes materials about the rural schools in Gray, Maine as reported in the February 1922 Annual Town Report.

A resource for educators 

Maine Historical Society has created companion lesson plans inspired by Teddy Roosevelt, Millie, and the Elegant Ride - These State-standard-based lesson plans are for classroom use in grades 6, 7, and 8. The lesson plans and companion vocabulary and reading activities are available as free downloads through the Seashore Trolley Museum's website at www.trolleymuseum.org/elegantride/ or Click Here.

The eight Social Studies/ELA units were also uploaded to the Maine Memory Network and are available with other statewide lesson plans for grades K-12. 


The audiobook is now available Click HERE to go to the Audible page. the eBook is available Here

This blog post was created specifically to support the new lesson plan titled:

* Then and Now: Life in Maine

Objectives:

* Students will practice the skills involved in analyzing primary sources.

* Students will be able to describe life on an early 20th-century Maine family farm and how life has changed in Maine since the early 1900s.

* Students will be able to describe the differences between attending school in the early 20th century and attending school today.

     This post is to provide supplemental information, images, and descriptions in support of research using the primary source of the 1922 Annual Report for the Town of Gray, Maine. The town's fiscal year of February 1921, through January 1922.

Front cover of the Annual Report

Click Here: Interview transcript: Elizabeth Megquier Whitney (1918), Miriam Bisbee (1920), & Charlotte Verrill Frost (1922) at Gray Historical Society.
Digital Maine Repository has many annual reports for many Maine communities. Teachers, instructors, parents, and students throughout Maine can search for their digitized town reports going back many years for many communities. This link will take you to the digitized annual reports for Cumberland (Gray annual reports are not available digitized in the DMR yet).

     I acquired the Gray, Maine Annual Town Reports for the years, 1921, 22, 24, 25, 26, 28, & 29. I was in search of clarifying information about the name and location of the junior high school in Gray, before the Hancock School opening. The building that was formerly the Hancock School is now the Gray Public Library. Information I garnered before mentioned that the Hancock School as a Junior High had opened in 1920. So, I thought if I read through the Town of Gray Annual Reports through the 1920s, there might be some reference to the name and location of the previous junior high school in Gray. Much to my surprise, there is no mention of Hancock School in any of the Town Reports I acquired. In the Town Reports, some reference to the "Laboratory" building, next to the Pennell Institute High School, hosting junior high school classes. 

     Starting in the early 1920s, Gray started discussing the consolidation of the rural one-room schoolhouses and transitioning those students to a central location in the village of Gray. Read the superintendent's report below.

Report of the Superintendent of Schools

     To the Superintending School Committee and the Citizens of Gray:

I herewith submit my fourth annual report of your school.

Teachers
     We have been obliged to make several changes in our teaching force since last year. Miss Mary Sweetzer accepted a position in Connecticut at a much larger salary than we could offer. None of our rural teachers returned except Mrs. Edith Cobb. Frequent changes in our corps of teachers make it difficult to keep up the high standard of work which we desire as no teacher can do her best work until after she has been more than one year in a school. It is hard to improve conditions, however, for few experienced teachers wish [for] positions in small rural schools.
     Something must be done or we shall soon have two classes of schools, and our rural pupils will be the losers. We need only to study the educational systems of some of the foreign countries to know what it means to have two types of schools.

Teachers' Wages
     Our highest-paid teacher receives a salary of $182.00 less than the average salary for elementary teachers in Cumberland County. To secure beginners, it was necessary to pay them within $140.00 per year of the salary paid to teachers who have taught faithfully for years. In fact, a girl from last year's graduating class at Pennell was offered $18.00 per week to teach in a nearby town. Under present conditions, there is little encouragement for a teacher to remain in Gray after she has secured her training and experience.

Music
     Miss Floy Pearson, our music supervisor, has made a very good start in the teaching of music in the schools. She visits each school once a week and not only teaches during the time she is in the building but also lays out the work for the regular teachers to follow until the next visit. In rural schools, the work is taught to the pupils in two divisions, each division receiving about fifteen minutes of instruction per day.
     Mis Pearson says that some of the schools have shown much musical talent, while in others the ability to sing has been lacking yet nearly all the children have been interested and have worked well. She reports that the teachers have done their work faithfully, and the results have been satisfactory.
     Music was not introduced until the fall term so the money raised at our last annual town meeting had paid for musical instruction from September until February. This year it is necessary to make a larger appropriation as we shall, of course, have music taught for the entire fiscal year.
     There is nothing in our course of study which gives more pleasure to the individual than music. I think that most of you will consider it money well invested.

School Laws
     I wish to call your attention to a few of the school laws. The state school funds are now distributed as follows: One hundred dollars for each teacher and for each transportation team which is approved by the state superintendent of schools and comes from a district closed after this law goes into effect, September 2021, three dollars for each person returned in the school census for [the] said town; a varying amount on the aggregate attendance.
     "On or before the first day of September, nineteen hundred and twenty-four, all school buildings or buildings used for school purposes shall be provided with toilet facilities that shall be installed in such manner and location as to (provide) privacy, cleanliness, and supervision by teachers and that shall meet at least one of the following minimum requirements:
            "(a) Flush water closets connected with sewer, filter bed, septic tanks or protected cesspool with separate compartments for the sexes, accessible only by separate passageways from school rooms or corridors."
            "(b) Chemical toilets of such type and manufacture as shall be approved by the state superintendent of public schools, with separate compartments for the sexes, accessible only by separate passageways from school rooms or corridors."
            "(c) Privies located in attached buildings provided with separate compartments for the sexes, accessible only by (two) separate ventilated passageways from school rooms or corridors and constructed in such a manner that the vault of said privy shall be at least ten feet from the nearest schoolroom wall and adjacent to the outside wall of said building in which said privy is located."
            "The first Friday in March of each year or the school day in each year nearest that date shall be designated as Temperance Day, and in every public school in the State of Maine not less than forty-five minutes of the school session shall be set apart and used for instruction and appropriate exercises relative to the history and benefits of prohibition and the prohibitory laws, and schools to continue their work so far as practicable during the remainder of the day."
            "A1 teacher of public schools in the state may close their schools and draw the same pay the same as if schools had been in session on any of the following days: Patriot's Day, April nineteen; Memorial Day, May thirty; Independence Day, July 4; Labor Day, first Monday of September; Christmas Day, December twenty-five; Thanksgiving Day, appointed by the governor and council. When any one of the (above) named holidays falls as a Sunday, the following Monday shall be observed as a school holiday, with all of the privileges applying to any of the (above) named holidays. In addition to the foregoing each of the days hereinafter named shall, upon vote of the superintending school committee of any town, be observed by teachers and pupils of the public schools of said town by an exercise appropriate thereto; such exercise to be held during such part of the school session as the teacher of each school may designate. The exercise so held shall aim to impress on the minds of the youth the important lessons of character and good citizenship to be learned from the lives of American leaders and heroes and from contemplation of their duties and obligations to the community, state, and nation of which they constitute a part. In the absence of any vote of the superintending school committee said days, hereinafter designated, shall be observed as legal holidays with the closing of schools. The days thus designated for school observance upon vote of the superintending school committee of any town shall be as follows: Washington's birthday, February twenty-two; Columbus Day, October twelve."

Repairs
    Owing to the change in the school laws regarding toilets in school buildings, we did not make changes as planned in the Intermediate building. This year, either flush or chemical toilets should be installed. The East Gray building needs shingling. There are small repairs which should be made on the other buildings. I also recommend that one or two of the buildings be painted one coat.

Better Schools
    A1 parents and other citizens who are really interested in the children [and] wish to give them the best possible opportunity to secure an education. The only question is, "How shall this be done?"

    We hear a great deal about famous men and women who were educated in the schools of the old type. They were educated for their day and not ours. It is also true that the best teachers of that time were found in the rural schools, while now the larger wage(s) and better working conditions attract a large percentage of the best teachers to the village and city schools. Business methods have changed much during the fifty years, and if we are to fit our boys and girls to take their places in the modern world, we must make our schools modern. too.
     In a town like Gray, a general plan of consolidation can be worked out in a manner that will give the children of the entire town as good a chance for education as their urban cousins. Suitable transportation wagons should be owned by the town. The Wayne wagon now used in Windham is as comfortable to ride in as an electric car.
    I recommend that the schools in North, East, and West Gray be transported to the village in suitable conveyances so that the parents may have a chance to see [the] real value of consolidation. The amount which would be saved by this method would enable us to increase our school year by two weeks without any increased cost to the town. With a school year of thirty-six weeks, we could do the work in eight years better than we are now doing it in nine years in our rural schools. Therefore, we could save one full year of a pupil's school life.
    (To) conform to the new law, all the toilets at the rural schools will have to be rebuilt if the schools are continued. This expense will be saved if transportation is adopted.
    The above plan of consolidation can be carried out without any change in the present buildings or teaching force. (To) transport all pupils to a consolidated school, it would be very necessary to increase the size of our present building. It is for this reason that I have not recommended a full consolidation at this time.
    While I have emphasized the economy of the consolidated school, we must not lose sight of the fact that its greatest advantage lies in the better opportunities it gives the pupils.

Junior High School
    It has been learned that many high school subjects can be better taught if they are commenced lower in the grades. This has led many progressive places to adopt new plans in the organization. The most common one is called the 6-3-3 plan. Through the first six years, the same course of study is used as at present. Beginning with the seventh grade, some of the high school subjects are begun in an elementary form. This not only lays a better foundation upon which to build the last three years of high school but also bridges the gap (that) now exists between the ninth grade and the freshman class. The name Junior High School is given to the three years now known here in Gray as the last two years of grammar grades and the first year of high school. The last three years of high school work are called the Senior High School and have the advantages of such a school system are much better prepared when they have finished their high school course than is now possible under the old plan.

Here is a little more info on the Laboratory at Pennell
filing in as the Junior High School. This is from the
1929 Gray Annual Report - Fiscal year February
1928 through January 1929.

School Nurse and Physician

    We know that pupils cannot do their best work if they are not physically fit in every way. Sometimes the parents do not notice their children's weaknesses as much as someone from outside does, especially if that someone is trained to notice such things.
    We are very fortunate this year to be able to secure both Miss Best and Dr. Andrews to examine the school children. They have found out any physical defects that the children have, and in most instances, the parents have been ready to follow any suggestions that have been made.
    The various phases of Miss Best's work are well known to you all. I do not need to speak of the wonderful work she is doing, either, for most of you are fully aware of it as I am. Every day or two, I meet someone who says, "I don't know how we ever got along without Miss Best." For particulars of her last year's work, I refer you to the Red Cross report which is found in another part of the Town report.

The first page of the Red Cross report is mentioned above.

The second page of the Red Cross report.

Co-Operation
    The keyword of success is cooperation. With all of the citizens working toward one end, better schools, we can make the schools of Gray second to none [in] the state.
    I wish to thank the Superintending School Committee, the Teachers, and other Citizens who have aided me in my work. Whatever success we have had is due to your co-operation.

                                                                        Respectfully submitted,

                                                                                Charles E. Varney
                                                                                        Superintendent of Schools

Tabular Statement

                             Enrollment                                                                                                          Average Cost @Pupil@Week
School                  Fall Term      Teacher                        Annual Salary         Weekly Salary      Instruction & Transportation
Laboratory           33         Mertelle K. Snow      $680.00                $13.08              $0.61 
Intermediate        30         Virginia Gates            $680.00                $13.08              $0.70
Primary               28         Elizabeth Stiles           $680.00                $13.08              $0.71
North Gray**       8          Alice Sweetser            $544.00                $10.46              $2.00
East Gray             11        Eleanor Russell           $612.00                $11.77               $1.64
South Gray          22        Marguerite Morrill       $578.00                 $11.12              $1.05
West Gray**        8          Edith Cobb                  $612.00                 $11.77              $2.25
Dry Mills            13         Susie Spiller                $612.00                 $11.77              $1.38

            ** These schools will not maintain a lawful average and will be closed unless kept open by a special vote of the town.

            The following appropriations are recommended for the common schools.

Common schools,                                                     $4,200.00
Common school books,                                                 275.00
Common school supplies,                                              150.00
Music supervisor for common schools,                         400.00

    Some amount should be raised for putting the toilets in a condition to conform to the law. The amount depends upon the number to be built this year.

                                                                    
                                                                                Charles E. Varney
                                                                                      Secretary School Committee

Students in Gray attended Pennell Institute for high school.
The Pennell Institute is seen on the left in this image.  Pennell
also built the building on the right, the Laboratory. For
several years, the Laboratory hosted Gray students attending
junior high school. Photo from Gray Historical Society

Report from the principal at Pennell Institute.
15 students graduated from high school in 1921.

Report from the University of Maine on the academic standings of the
Freshmen from Gray in 1921.

Gray School Committee Report - pg 1

School Committee Report - pg 2
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We continue the restoration work on the 1912, Narcissus, the only surviving high-speed, luxury interurban coach of the Portland-Lewiston Interurban. 

Click Here: Narcissus Restoration-Related Posts

Being more than a century old, the stately, "Elegant Ride," Narcissus, is a gem.  This shimmering precious stone of Maine transportation history is brilliantly resplendent as it emanates so many elements of history, including; time, places, people, and events, that it was coupled to, that when just a smattering of its seemingly innumerable stories are shared, the contents captivates, fascinates, then generates, interest to learn more 🙋. The majestic Narcissus is listed in the National Register of Historic Places.

Please consider joining the epic journey to complete the Narcissus Project by making a donation today!

Click Here: Donation Options

The restoration of this majestic icon of Maine's electric railway history is but one in a series of captivating stories containing an abundance of incredible coalition of narratives.

Click Here: History-Related Posts - Narcissus and Portland-Lewiston Interurban

     The Narcissus is featured in the national Gold Award-winning novel, Teddy Roosevelt, Millie, and the Elegant Ride. The "Elegant Ride" is the Narcissus. Theodore Roosevelt was a passenger on the Narcissus on August 18, 1914, between Lewiston and Portland, Maine, while campaigning for the Progressive Party candidates.

Click Here: Bookstores and Businesses promoting the Narcissus Project

Independent book publisher, Phil Morse, holding
the Gold Book Award Winner plaque for
 the Middle Reader category for The Eric
Hoffer Book Award. Congratulations to
award-winning Maine author,
Jean M. Flahive

Thursday, December 24, 2020

Elizabeth Megquier Whitney (1918-1921), Miriam Bisbee (1920), & Charlotte Verrill Frost (1922) at Gray Historical Society

These charming ladies all rode on the interurbans of
Portland-Lewiston Interurban when they were young girls
growing up in Gray, Maine. Two nonagenarians and one
centenarian. The interview took place on Saturday
morning, June 23, 2018, at the Gray Historical
Society. PWM photo.

     On June 23, 2018, Seashore Trolley Museum volunteer, Phil Morse was a guest of the Gray Historical Society in Gray, Maine. The purpose of the visit was to record oral history recollections from three residents of Gray; Elizabeth Whitney Megquier (born 1918), Miriam Bisbee (born 1920), and Charlotte Verrill Frost (born 1922), from when they were growing up in Gray early in the 20th century.  Here are portions of the transcript from the recording.

A resource for teachers 
Maine Historical Society has created companion lesson plans inspired by Teddy Roosevelt, Millie, and the Elegant Ride - These State-standard-based lesson plans are for classroom use in grades 6, 7, and 8. The lesson plans and companion vocabulary and reading activities are available as free downloads through the Seashore Trolley Museum's website at www.trolleymuseum.org/elegantride/ or Click Here.

The eight Social Studies/ELA units were also uploaded to the Maine Memory Network and are available with other statewide lesson plans for grades K12. 


The audiobook is now available Click HERE to go to the Audible page. the eBook is available Here

This blog post was created specifically to support the new lesson plan titled:

* Then and Now: Life in Maine

Objectives:

* Students will practice the skills involved in analyzing primary sources.

* Students will be able to describe life on an early 20th-century Maine family farm and how life has changed in Maine since the early 1900s.

* Students will be able to describe the differences between attending school in the early 20th century and attending school today.

     This post is to provide supplemental information, images, and descriptions in support of research using the primary source from the collection of an oral history recording of Miriam Bisbee (born 1920), Charlotte Verrill Frost (born 1922), and Elizabeth WhitneyMagguier (born 1918) at the Gray Historical Society in Gray, Maine, on June 23, 2018.

Others in attendance included:
Donald Whitney - President of the Gray Historical Society (nephew of Elizabeth Whitney Megquier)
Aubine Whitney Dingwell - (niece of Elizabeth Whitney Megquier) - took some photos and recorded some video recordings.
Rodney Megquier - (son of Elizabeth Megquier)
Sandy Frost - (granddaughter of Charlotte Frost)
Suzanne Trudel - (lives on Colley Hill (Gray) and lived in the Colley Homestead and knew Mildred Webb. Milfred Webb was Elizabeth Whiney Megquier's aunt. Mildred worked in Portland at the Registry of Deeds and commuted between Gray and Portland using the luxury coaches of the Portland-Lewiston Interurban (PLI), such as the Narcissus. Mildred and her two children moved back in with her parents in the Colley Homestead after her husband's death from the flu in 1918/19.
Kathy Skilling - Gray resident and volunteer at the Gray Historical Society
Dick Skilling - Gray resident and volunteer at the Gray Historical Society
Dawn Verbal - a friend of Aubine Whitney Dingwell (not a resident of Gray)
Audrey Burns - volunteer at the Gray Historical Society - Her aunt is in the photo (center-front wearing a dark skirt with a light/white blouse) of Theodore Roosevelt on the Narcissus when in Gray on August 18, 1914.
Ted McDonald - took some photos...arrived a bit after the interview started.
Jean Flahive - author - researching for her book about life in Gray during the times of the PLI (the book was released late in 2019, Teddy Roosevelt, Millie, and the Elegant Ride)

Transcript segments from the June 23, 2018 interview recorded at Gray Historical Society, Gray ME:

Theodore Roosevelt is seen here addressing an assembled
crowd on August 18, 1914, in Gray, ME. TR is aboard the
Portland Lewiston Interurban No. 14, Narcissus. He would
ride a PLI  interurban again on August 31, 1916.
The Narcissus is currently undergoing restoration at
Seashore Trolley Museum's Town House Shop,
in Kennebunkport, Maine. Image courtesy
00:03:36

Phil Morse: So, if it's okay, I'd like each of you to say your name; if you don't mind, what your birthdays are - 

Elizabeth Megquier: Mmm...[chuckles]

Phil Morse: You don't have to.

Elizabeth Megquier: I don't want to.

Phil Morse: That's quite all right. And that you give permission for us to record this today. I'm Phil Morse. What's your name?

00:04:02

Miriam Bisbee: Miriam Bisbee

Phil Morse: Miriam, nice to meet you.

Miriam Bisbee: Born October 15, 1922, in Gray.

Phil Morse: In Gray. Great.

Miriam Bisbee: Lived there all my life, except for a few years I was away at school.

Phil Morse: Did I just see your picture in the paper recently?

Jean Flahive: With an ax?

Phil Morse: With an ax?
Miriam Bisbee is seen here in the local paper
holding a hatchet. June 2018

Miriam Bisbee: Oh yeah, probably. [laughter]

Phil Morse: Okay, we probably should - the ax was for tossing at a target, nothing that we should be worried about.

Miriam Bisbee: Well, I tell people I'm still a dangerous woman. [laughter]

Phil Morse: Yes, dear. And your name?

Charlotte Frost: Charlotte Frost. I was Verrill Frost.

Phil Morse: Charlotte.

Charlotte Frost: My Birthday, 1920.

Phil Morse: Well, thank you. You were born in Gray?

00:04:55

Charlotte Frost: I thought I was the oldest, but Elizabeth's older than I am. [laughter]

Elizabeth Megquier: I was born in Portland, but my mother brought me because we lived in South Gray, and I had to take the Interurban. Of course, I didn't know it. I was about a month old then. [laughter]

Phil Morse: Now what's your name?

Elizabeth Megquier: Elizabeth Magquier, Elizabeth Whitney Magquier.

Phil Morse: Oh, Whitney. Nice.

Elizabeth Megquier: My mother brought me home on the Interurban, and we met my father at South Gray. They had a building there, [the] Interurban.

No. 12 Gladiolus, sister Portland-Lewiston Interurban coach
to Narcissus.
00:05:39

And he had - it was in April then. I was born on March 28, 1918, but they - it snowed in April, and there was no decent way to get me home, so my father had what they called a pung, and me my mother - and I couldn't have been more than a month old when I rode on the Interurban with her.

A pung. One of many variations in the sleigh family.
in North Yarmouth, Maine

Phil Morse: Wow, nice. So, growing up in Gray, or South Gray - you came to visit the Trolley Museum last year, right?
Elizabeth Whitney Megquier at Seashore
Trolley Museum visiting the Narcissus on July
21, 2017. Photo courtesy of Amber Tatnall

Elizabeth Megquier: Yes, I did.

Phil Morse: And saw the Narcissus in restoration, and you talked about that the line was built through your family's dairy farm?

Elizabeth Megquier: Yes.

(L-R) Elizabeth Whitney Megquier, Elizabeth's great-great,
niece, and Elizabeth's nephew, Donald Whitney,
at Seashore Trolley Museum visiting the Narcissus
on July 21, 2017. Photo courtesy of Amber Tatnall

Restoration shop manager, Randy Leclair (L) addresses
guests while holding onto the Narcissus. In the foreground
are (L-R) Elizabeth, Donald, and Donald's great-niece on
July 21, 2017. Photo courtesy of Amber Tatnall

00:06:33

Phil Morse: So, can you tell me what life was like growing up on the dairy farm?

Elizabeth Megquier: It was hard because we were quite poor, and my father didn't make very much money. so, of course, it was hard. He raised cows, and my mother made the butter to sell.

Phil Morse: How many cows did your father have?

Elizabeth Megquier: I don't remember now. He only milked.

00:07:19

Jean Flahive: What was your chore as a young girl on the farm? Like, did you have to gather eggs?

Elizabeth Megquier: Oh yes. I had to help with everything.

Jean Flahive: So, you gathered eggs and ...let's see. Did you help bring the cows in for milking?

Elizabeth Megquier: No, but my father had a separator, and he had to separate the cream from the milk. Then my mother made butter from the milk.

Phil Morse: Now did your father sell the milk?

Elizabeth Megquier: No. He didn't do...no. He didn't raise enough to.

Phil Morse: Oh, okay. So, it was just for use by your own family?

Elizabeth Megquier: Yes.

Phil Morse: Nice

Elizabeth Megquier: We had a neighbor who - he had a jug, and I had to fill it every day and take the jug of milk to the neighbor because he wasn't able to come and get any milk.

00:08:36

Phil Morse: What was your neighbor's name?

Elizabeth Megquier: Clayton. They lived next door.

Miriam Bisbee: [laughs] I remember. I remember that old couple. [laughter] Are we recording?

Phil Morse: Yes. So, when you say "old couple," Miriam, what do you mean by "old couple"? [laughter]

00:09:03

Miriam Bisbee: Well, they were kind of notorious, I think. This was back when prohibition was in force, and they had the reputation of making hard cider and selling it - bootlegging! [laughter] As I remember, the woman, she was kind of an old harridan.

00:09:42

Jean Flahive: Did they get in trouble for selling the hard cider?

Miriam Bisbee: Not that I ever heard of. This is the sort of thing that everybody knows, but nobody tells -

Phil Morse: So, Miriam, did you grow up on a farm as well?

Miriam: Yeah, I grew up where I live now.

Phil Morse: Really...

Miriam Bisbee: I was born there, and I plan to die there. but not right off if I can help it [laughter]

Phil Morse: So, what did your parents; your father and mother do?

Miriam: Dad was in the poultry business, particularly breeding. It was a small operation. Of course, we did general farming, too. We had a cow and a horse and a garden...like people did back in those days. [Miriam's father F. W. Bisbee]

00:10:55

Don Whitney: So, you did canning and ...

Miriam Bisbee: Picking berries and subsistence. We used to sell a quart of milk to a neighbor.

Elizabeth Megquier: The Claytons - was where I took that milk to them...she was very active because she sold the cider in Portland, and it was against the rules. But she became quite ill, so I always took the milk to him.

Charlotte Frost: - go to school, so we all got married! [ laughter]

Elizabeth Megquier: But my aunt worked at the registry of deeds until she retired, and she had to take that - she took the... She lived at Colley Hill with her father and mother, and she had to walk down, and she took the...

Donald Whitney: The Interurban, the trolley?

Jean Flahive: The trolley?

Elizabeth Megquier: The trolley to Portland every day to work at the registry of deeds.

00:12:16

Phil Morse: What was your aunt's name?

Elizabeth Megquier: Mildred Colley Webb

Jean Flahive: Did any of you live near the rail line for the trolley?

Miriam Bisbee: A mile away.

Jean Flahive: A mile away. And where was that?

Miriam Bisbee: On Whitney Road.

The Whitney Road Crossing in South Gray.
From a postcard in the O. R. Cummings Collection as published
in "The Illustrated Atlas of Maine's Street
& Electric Railways 1863-1946"

Elizabeth Megquier: My brother was born in your old house.

Miriam Bisbee: Is that so?

Elizabeth Megquier: Yeah.

Phil Morse: Elizabeth, the Interurban went right through your yard, right, your farm?

Elizabeth Megquier: It went right across the farm, across the road. My father owned quite a lot of property, and he needed the property to feed the cows in the summer, so he had to have a fence along there so that the cows wouldn't go onto the tracks.

00:13:19

He had a gate on both sides of the tracks because his property went beyond the tracks.

Phil Morse: So, did they have the Interurban put in a little crossing so that it was smooth for the cows to go across?

Elizabeth Megquier: No. They didn't cooperate...very good...that way.

Phil Morse: No? Did you - I know you first rode it when you were a month old. But, as you were older, did they stop to pick you up there, or did you have to...Where did you go to go for a ride on the Interurban, from your house?

Elizabeth Megquier: We had to drive about a mile to where the house was that was there for people to wait.

Phil Morse: So, was that a substation? Was there a clerk there to sell tickets?

Elizabeth Megquier: No, no.

Phil Morse: It was just a house?

00:14:15

Elizabeth Megquier: Just a house.

Phil Morse: So, was it a house that people lived in, or just a small building?

Elizabeth Megquier: Just a small building.

Phil Morse: And where - that was in Gray?

Elizabeth Megquier: Yeah, that was in South Gray, but it was probably - wouldn't it be a mile from (where) I lived? It was just a small building, as I remember.

There were crossing at South Gray,
Whitney Road, and Verrill Road. Map from:
"The Illustrated Atlas of Maine's Street
& Electric Railways 1863-1946"

Miriam Bisbee: They had a little building - I would think about eight feet square - with a door toward the rails, and benches on three sides of it, inside. It was just an open door in the front.

One of the PLI coaches stops at one of the small waiting
stations at a crossing on Route 100. There are no markings
that identify which crossing this is, however, it could very well
be in South Gray at the Verrill Road Crossing (Charlotte's
grandparent's property), or at the South Gray crossing
The sign on the left reads Railroad Crossing.
One of these original signs is above
the ladies as they sit in the image below. PWM

(L-R) Miriam Bisbee, Charlotte Verrill Frost,
and Elizabeth WhitneyMagguier at Gray
Historical Society on June 23, 2018.
Photo courtesy of Aubine Dingwell

Donald Whitney: How did you get the trains to stop there? It wasn't a regular stop.

Miriam Bisbee: No. You stood out there and flagged 'em down if you wanted 'em to stop. [laughter] And if it was after dark, you wanted to have a flashlight.

Donald Whitney: That's interesting.

Phil Morse: So, how could you tell they were coming?

Miriam Bisbee: Oh, well, I think they used to blow the horn.

Elizabeth Megquier: You could hear it.

Phil Morse: They'd blow the horn?

Elizabeth Megquier: No, it was so noisy.

Phil Morse: Really?

Elizabeth Megquier: Oh, yes.

Phil Morse: So, what kind of noise would it make?

Elizabeth Megquier: Just a...

Phil Morse: What did it remind you of?

Elizabeth Megquier: I don't remember.

00:15:54

Donald Whitney: Could you hear it from the house?

Elizabeth Megquire: No.

Miriam Bisbee: Well, you wouldn't have time to get there if you did. [laughter]

Elizabeth Megquier: What was bad about it is...because...it divided my father's property, and he had to have a gate on both sides of the track. And when he knew it was coming, then he would close the gate on both sides.

A deed that includes provisions for the electric
railroad to construct a cattle underpass (a concrete
bridge [tunnel] under the electric railroad that cows/cattle
can pass through), as well as build gates.
Mr. Snow, the owner mentioned in this deed, is the
great-grandfather of a longtime volunteer motorman
at Seashore Trolley Museum, Glen Snow.

Donald Whitney: Did the cows ever get out and get on the tracks?

Elizabeth Megquier: I don't remember if they ever did, but perhaps they could have.

Phil Morse: What do you remember about riding in the interurban car? Do you remember what it looked like inside, or how you felt when you were riding it?

00:16:49

Elizabeth Megquier: It seemed quite good I thought, but...When I was in high school, only two years, freshman and sophomore, could I ride it, because it was then disbanded...

Phil Morse: And so, when you were in high school, you would take it to school? Where did you go to high school?

Elizabeth Megquier: At Pennell Institute. Yes. I could take it to high school. I think it costs something like $0.10 or $0.20 to go from South Gray to - 

Jean Flahive: One little girl that's going to be a character in the novel, she'd be like seven, eight, nine. Where would she go to school in Gray? When you were a little girl in grade school, where did you go?

00:17:51

Charlotte Frost: I always went to school in Gray, yes.

Jean Flahive: What was the name of that school?

Charlotte Frost: Just elementary, I guess.

Jean Flahive: Gray Elementary?

Charlotte Frost: You had six years in that one school.

Phil Morse: Six years?

Charlotte Frost: Six, yes. Not sixteen, no. [laughter]

Jean Flahive: Because they have different school districts, that's why - 

Donald Whitney: In different sections of town, yes. As a matter of fact, there was one in South Gray, down by the Whitney Road - 

Miriam Bisbee: Yeah.

Donald Whitney: That's where you went to school?

Elizabeth Megquier: I went there for six years.

Jean Flahive: What was that one called?

Miriam Bisbee: It was the South Gray School.

Phil Morse: Miss Cobb was one of the teachers?

Elizabeth Megguier: Yes.

Phil Morse: So, there were all different age groups than in your school?

Elizabeth Megquier: Yes, yes.

Phil Morse: How many students were in the school?

00:18:40

Elizabeth Megquier: I don't remember.

Miriam Bisbee: Well, 13 when I was there.

Phil Morse: 13?

Miriam Bisbee: It was the South Gray School, near the intersection of (the) Whitney Road and Route 100. It's a dwelling, house now. And we had about 13 kids in it when I was there, I believe. They had grades from sub-primary through sixth, and seventh and eighth went to [Hancock] which is now the Library.

Hancock School (Junior High 7th and 8th grade) was built in
1920. Seen here at Hancock School is the Class of 1933.
Miriam Bisbee is in the front row, 2nd in from the left side.
Image courtesy of Gray Historical Society.

Phil Morse: Okay. so, what was it like? How did you get to school? Did you walk to school?

00:19:20

Miriam Bisbee: No. My father had a horse and wagon, and he used to take us down. And if we were going on the Interurban, he'd take us to the track.

A typical horse-drawn farm wagon early in the 20th century.
in North Yarmouth, Maine

Phil Morse: To the little building there? 

Miriam Bisbee: Yeah. Back in those days, quite a few of us used horse transportation. It wasn't really the horse and buggy days. Model T's were still fairly common. Model A's were the latest thing. [laughter]

00:19:57

Elizabeth Megquier: That building that was in Gray that kept it going, it was very noisy.

Phil Morse: Oh, the substation? That was a brick building, wasn't it?

The Gray substation circa 1925. To the left is the "new"
freight building. Inside the substation was a passenger waiting
room. Tickets could be purchased inside. Approximately
one-third of the building also housed a large generator.
"The Illustrated Atlas of Maine's Street
& Electric Railways 1863-1946"

Elizabeth Megquier: Yes, it was.

Miriam Bisbee: It's still there, I think?

Elizabeth Megquier: It was so noisy that I really didn't want to sit there and listen. It was so loud you couldn't hear anybody say anything.

Miriam Bisbee: I think there was a dynamo; that's why it was noisy.

Phil Morse: Yeah.

Elizabeth Megquier:  When I got into high school, I walked from Pennell back to my home in South Gray a lot of times, rather than sit there in that station with that horrible noise. [laughter]

00:20:49

Jean Flahive: Where was the substation?

Donald Whitney: On 115, right out here. The building is still there. It's a house.

Jean Flahive: If I see a little, red, brick building - 

Donald Whitney: Red, brick building. It'd be on the left.

Phil Morse: How far down is it?

Donald Whitney: Not far, just above the church a little way.

Phil Morse: Okay, so the church is at the intersection?

Donald Whitney: Yes.

Miriam Bisbee: It's up the hill.

Phil Morse: So, it's before the church?

Donald Whitney: No, it's after.

Phil Morse: Just after the church? Okay.

Elizabeth Megquier: But, my aunt used it as long as she could, but she became very friendly with the conductor and motorman, and they would pick her up at the foot of Colley Hill, rather than she had to walk to the substation.

The Deed shows Elizabeth's grandfather, Charles Colley,
selling a parcel of land for the electric interurban 
to use.

Phil Morse: So, they'd stop the train there? They'd stop the train?

00:21:40

Elizabeth Megquier: They'd stop for her and let her get on special.

Phil Morse: Now, this was the aunt that was going to Portland to the registry, to work at the registry?

Elizabeth Megquier: Yeah.

Phil Morse: Do you remember the name of the conductor or the motorman?

Elizabeth Megquier: Just that the motorman was Eddie, but I don't know his last name.

Edward "Eddie"  H. Buchanan (L) and
William M. Jones.
From the Portland-Lewiston
Interurban Employees Scrapbook 1938-1941.

Phil Morse: Okay, when you rode them, did you find that the motormen and the conductors were friendly?

Elizabeth Megquier:  Oh, yes.

Phil Morse: And local people?

Elizabeth Megquier: Yes, very friendly.

Phil Morse: How about you, Charlotte? Did you ride the Interurban?

Charlotte Frost: Occasionally, when I wanted to go somewhere. My grandmother lived in South Gray, and it cost $0.10 to go down there. $0.50 to ride to Portland. And nothing very glamorous. It was a quiet life. Nothing very spectacular happened. [laughter] I was born in Gray and lived there all my life practically, graduated from Pennell Institute. Plus, we had no school buses. We walked at that time. If you wanted to go somewhere, you walked.

00:22:59

Charlotte Frost: Nothing much, but...your parents were just ordinary, working people. I had one brother, who was born in Miriam's old house there. It burned. And I say, no school buses, nothing at that time. We walked to school.

Phil Morse: What was your first job when you were a young girl?

Charlotte Frost: Well, I didn't work out... Well, there were twelve in my class when we graduated. There were eight girls and four boys. And the times were hard. You didn't have a lot of money in those days. So, all the girls, about all of 'em, decided to get married. [laughter] We didn't have money to go to college, so all - 

Phil Morse: I heard there was a zoon in Cumberland. Did any of you ever go up to the park by the Interurban? There was some sort of a zoo there with exotic animals.

00:24:20

Elizabeth Megquier: No, I never knew about that.

Phil Morse: How about Park Hall? It was like a dance hall or something. did you ever go there, in Cumberland? No? Okay.

Charlotte Frost: Way back in 1915, when they were building the Interurban it went through the land that my grandparents, the Verrills, had.

Deed for Charlotte's grandfather, Ernest Verrill 
selling a parcel of land for the electric interurban 
to use.

Phil Morse: That's Verrill?

Charlotte Frost: It went through there. And they had a [waiting room] -

Miriam Bisbee: Oh, I know what you are talking about. [laughter]

Phil Morse: There was some sort of zoo or something.

00:25:07

Miriam Bisbee: But it wasn't on the Interurban. It was on route 100.

Elizabeth Megquier: I don't remember any zoo.

Phil Morse: Route 100...

Miriam Bisbee: They had a ...Well, I guess they had an illegal drinking establishment. [laughter] That was only rumors, but they had this pine grove with enormous pine trees, and they had a roadside zoo sort of thing.

00:25:42

Miriam Bisbee: They had Pony rides and these [one-arm bandits] type things that you could pay a nickel to try and knock something over and get a prize that was worth two cents if you hit it. [laughter] That sorta thing.

Jean Flahive: What timeframe? What year was that?

Miriam Bisbee: Well, this was in business when I was a kid in South Gray School because we used to have our last-day picnic down there.

Jean Flahive: Oh, okay.

Phil Morse: So, when the class went for the picnic, did you go on the Interurban, or did you take wagons? How did you get to the picnic?

00:26:23

Miriam Bisbee: Well, I think various people had cars and they carpooled because the Interurban didn't go that close, I don't think.

Phil Morse: Okay. So, here's a photograph of several of the workers on the Portland-Lewiston Interurban.

Elizabeth Megquier: Oh, my goodness.

Charlotte Frost: Some of them were my neighbors. I know the Kimballs. Kimball. Ernest Kimball. Who do you know that works on it?

Miriam Bisbee: I think Dana Russell was a - 

Charlotte Frost: Dana, That's right.

[L-R] (?) Maxwell, D. Russell, C. Doughty, E. Kimball, 
P. Loring, E. Skillins, R. Verrier(?)
image courtesy Gray Historical Society


Dana Russell and other conductors and motormen of the PLI
From the Portland-Lewiston
Interurban Employees Scrapbook 1938-1941.

E. "Ernest" Kimball and other PLI Employees
From the Portland-Lewiston
Interurban Employees Scrapbook 1938-1941.

00:27:05

Phil Morse: Dana Russell.

Elizabeth Megquier: He lived up and on the Old County Road.

Charlotte Frost: They hired quite a few people, they did.

Phil Morse: Now, to build the line, in those early years, 1910 to 1914 or '15, they had a lot of Italian immigrants that were building the line.

Image of the Italian ditching crew at the Danville
siding at Auburn. Circa 1913. From the Portland-Lewiston
Interurban Employees Scrapbook 1938-1941.

Charlotte Frost: Yes.

Phil Morse: Did you ever hear any stories about those fellas?

Elizabeth Megquier: Yes. The young girls chased them. [laughter] Yeah, they did.

Phil Morse: Did they ever catch 'em?

Elizabeth Megquier: I don't know. [laughter]

Aubine Dingwell: Auntie, Did you?

Elizabeth Megquier: No. [laughter]

Phil Morse: Because in the books it talks about there was a stabbing. A couple of the Italian boys got into a fight, and one of them stabbed, and like ten of them had to go to jail to figure out what happened. It took two or three days, because of the language barrier. so, I didn't know if you heard any of those stories.

00:28:28

Elizabeth Megquier: No.

Phil Morse: Now, Miriam, it seems like something you'd have an ear toward - any kind of trouble. [laughter]

Miriam Bisbee: Gee, thanks! [laughter]

Phil Morse: So, did you ever hear anything about any trouble with the Italian immigrants?

00:28:47

Miriam Bisbee: No, I never heard anything like that, but I wasn't very social when I was a kid, growing up, so I wouldn't have heard anything if they had been brewing around. [laughter]

Jean Flahive: What was your hobby or interest growing up, or just working so hard? What did you like to do when you weren't working?

Miriam Bisbee: Read.

Jean Flahive: Read! Wow, wonderful.

00:29:13

Miriam Bisbee: I've often said...if they hadn't taught me to read, I might have amounted to something. [laughter]

Phil Morse: So, who was one of your favorite authors?

Miriam Bisbee: Oh gosh. I don't think it ever - the authors particularly impressed me. It was just compulsive. If it was printed in English and it was where I could see it, I'd read it, even if it was only the label on - 

Phil Morse: Did they have romance novels then?

00:29:55

Miriam Bisbee: I suppose they always [have]. [laughter]

Elizabeth Megquier: My grandmother had a bookcase, and she lived downstairs. I used to sneak down to read because I wasn't supposed to read anything until I was sixteen. I would sneak downstairs and read in her living room when no one was around, and she had a bookcase with quite a few authors in there that were romance, but nothing bad.

Phil Morse: Now, in the early days of the Interurban, Theodore Roosevelt was a passenger and stopped in Gray on two different occasions; in 1914 and in 1916. Were there any conversations in your family about that happening?

Elizabeth Megquier: No.

00:30:58

Miriam Bisbee: I think my father was there for the second one.

Phil Morse: Yeah, 1916. It was in August of 1916.

Miriam Bisbee: He kind of idolized Theodore Roosevelt.

Jean Flahive: Did he talk politics at home, about Roosevelt?

Miriam Bisbee: Well, the first president that I can remember anything about is Calvin Coolidge. I can remember when Herbert Hoover and his running mate, Clark, were running against Al Smith. I can't remember who Al Smith's running mate was, but I remember that he was all for repealing prohibition, and we were Republicans in those days, but the Republican Party has changed - and not for the better, in my humble opinion, [laughter]

Phil Morse: Your meal in the evening, did you call it supper or dinner?

00:32:09

Miriam Bisbee: I still do.

Phil Morse: Supper?

Elizabeth Megquier: Supper. Dinner at noon.

Jean Flahive: What was a typical meal for supper?

Elizabeth Megquier: Oh, just fruit and - 

Miriam Bisbee: Whatever was left from lunch.

Elizabeth Megquier: Nothing special, probably what could've been left from lunch - I mean dinner.

Jean Flahive: Would that be some -? Can you remember anything at lunch that some of you ate that was typical?

Elizabeth Megquier: No.

Rodney Megquier: When did you have the corn stew that Nana used to make from the leftover corn? Was that for breakfast?

Elizabeth Megquier: Yes, corn stew.

Rodney Megquier: Any corn left over, corn on the cob, you'd just put it in a bowl with a lot of butter, salt, and pepper, and just enough milk to cover the - just to use up the - and we always called it corn stew and had it for breakfast.

Jean Flahive: Okay, I like that.

00:33:17

Phil Morse: So - politics during a meal, like at supper? Did your father talk about Roosevelt or any of the other politicians?

Elizabeth Megquier: No. He talked politics with his brother, who was Albert Whitney when he came. But my mother didn't care to have them talk politics at the table. [laughter]

Phil Morse: How about you Charlotte?

Charlotte Frost: No, My husband was the one who talked politics. [laughter]

00:33:57

Phil Morse: What's your husband's name?

Charlotte Frost: Philip Frost. Donnie knows him. If you knew him, but politics didn't go the way he wanted 'em to go. [laughter]

Phil Morse: Now, Miriam, your father liked Theodore Roosevelt. Can you recall what kinds of things he would talk about when it comes to -

Elizabeth Megquier: He was a Democrat. That's my father.

Miriam Bisbee: I don't think he had a lot to say about it. I don't think he was a terribly talkative man anyway, but what he had to say made sense.

Jean Flahive: I know you were all probably very young, but does your family ever talk about the big flu pandemic that happened around 1918?

Elizabeth Megquier: No.

Jean Flahive: No? Did you know if anybody in Gray died from it?

Elizabeth Megquier: My aunt's husband died. He had the flu. That was from the first...World War.

Jean Flahive: Right.

Miriam Bisbee: I think my mother nursed both my father and my cousin, Raymond, through it, but they survived.

00:35:22

Phil Morse: Now, your aunt, is that the one that went to work at the registry of deeds?

Elizabeth Megquier: Yes. She had two children, Nancy and Edward, and when her husband died she came back to Colley Hill to live with her father and mother.

Phil Morse: So, did she ever remarry or have any relationships after that?

Elizabeth Megquier: Well, she was fairly interested in the motorman. [laughter] She rode back and forth to the registry of deeds so long they became very friendly. And his first name was Eddie, but I never remember the last.

00:36:16

Elizabeth Megquier: But at Thanksgiving - or was it the fourth of July? My aunt wanted to invite Eddie to come because, on the Fourth of July, we always had a big celebration - homemade ice cream and so forth. And my grandfather put his foot down and he said, "You are not to ask that man to eat with us on the Fourth of July," because, he said, "I haven't heard very good things about him." [laughter] But it's too bad...because I remember - fairly remember Eddie. He was very nice to everybody. Of course, it was the way he was. He was the motorman.

R. E. Trask (L) and E. "Eddie" H. Buchanan.
From the Portland-Lewiston
Interurban Employees Scrapbook 1938-1941.

E. "Eddie" Buchanan and other PLI conductors and motormen.
From the Portland-Lewiston
Interurban Employees Scrapbook 1938-1941.

00:37:12

Phil Morse: Now, for the Fourth of July celebration, you did make ice cream?

Elizabeth Megquier: We made homemade ice cream in the freezer. Cranked it. You've probably seen one of those.

Phil Morse: Not me. I'm only 66. So, how did you do that?

Elizabeth Megquier: You had to have ice, and it was a big freezer, with a thing in the middle that you put the syrup in, then you cranked it and cranked it until it froze. It froze if you kept the ice around it.

Phil Morse: Miriam, did you make ice cream, too?

Miriam Bisbee: Well, not when I was young, because we didn't have ice then. The freezer had an outer tub and an inner container. Between the two, you had ice and salt. The device [stirred] the veins inside the inner container to keep scraping it and stirring it, so it would all freeze instead of just ice crystals on the outside.

Phil Morse: Did you do anything special on the Fourth of July to celebrate the Fourth of July?

00:38:47

Elizabeth Megquier: Well, we just made that homemade ice cream, which was quite a job. [chuckle]

Phil Morse: Did you go anywhere special in the community to celebrate the Fourth of July?

Elizabeth Megquier: No.

Jean Flahive: Did any of you have electricity in your home when growing up?

Charlotte Frost: We didn't have electricity.

Jean Flahive: You didn't have any?

Charlotte Frost: No

00:39:13

Miriam Bisbee: Not until I was in my late 20s.

Rodney Megguier: Did you have electricity, Mother, when you were growing up?

Elizabeth Megquier: Yes, after a while.

Charlotte Frost: We didn't have electricity or running water - No.

Elizabeth Megquier: I can't remember when we got electricity.

Charlotte Frost: - not until, well, probably I got out of high school.

Phil Morse: So, the bathrooms -[laughter] Miriam? [laughter]

Miriam Bisbee: That's a loose application of the word!

00:40:03

Phil Morse: Describe the bathroom of the day for us then. So, did you have a two-holer...a three-holer?

Miriam Bisbee: Four-holer.

Phil Morse: Four-holer! [laughter] Wow.

Miriam Bisbee: It accommodated the whole family. [laughter] Not that it ever did, but it could have.

Elizabeth Megquier: When my aunt was working, she had the money to put in a bathroom at the Colley home, but my grandfather was so disgusted with her. He never would use that bathroom. [laughter]

00:40:46

Phil Morse: So, when you were growing up, what did you do for fun during...the course of...a day?

Elizabeth Megquier: We didn't have much. Well, I could play croquet. We had a croquet set. But mostly reading was what I did.

Phil Morse: How about you, Charlotte?

Miriam Bisbee: We didn't have any.

Charlotte Frost: Well, mostly at the weekend we'd take a trip to Portland and spend the day and have dinner and perhaps go to the movies. That was it.

Phil Morse: Did you ever go to Riverton Park?

Charlotte Frost: I didn't.

Phil Morse: Miriam, did you ever go to Riverton Park?

Miriam Bisbee: No.

Charlotte Frost: I heard from my parents, but it kind of went out, I guess, in my day there.

00:42:10

Jean Flahive: Did you go to Lewiston or Auburn?

Miriam Bisbee: Well, we used to go to Lewiston to shop for school clothes about once a year. We went up there for our doctor and dentist appointments.

Phil Morse: Did you ever take the Interurban up there?

Miriam Bisbee: Yeah, that's how we went. I remember those old green, plush seats. They were made so that you could flip the back so you could have two seats together, so that's the way we did it when mother and we girls went.

00:43:00

Phil Morse: What conversations would you have when you're sitting together as a family, going to Lewiston?

Miriam Bisbee: Well, I don't think we talked much. You looked out the window to see what was going by. But we usually had - mother would make some sandwiches, and we'd usually have some lunch on our way up.

Jean Flahive: Did it seem like it went really fast, the trolley?

Elizabeth Megquier: Yes, it did.

Miriam Bisbee: Well, compared to the horse and buggy -[laughter]

Jean Flahive: -hysterical.

Charlotte Frost: Yeah, we'd go to South Gray for $0.10. go to Portland [for] $0.50. They were very, very nice, kind of like luxurious plush seats. They were very nice. It was about the only way if you wanted to go anywhere [outside of Gray]. Take the Interurban.

Interior of the Arbutus. The Narcissus has an identical interior.
The Mohair Plush green seats, the interlocking tile on the aisle floor,
the gold leaf fleur-de-lis in each corner of the center ceiling panels,
the decorative inlay seen in the mahogany panels of the
bulkhead and doorway leading to the smoking compartment, and
the ornate leaded stained glass windows above the passenger
windows. Traveling at speeds up to 70 mph, passengers
would see their local communities pass by the windows at a rapid
rate. Image from the O. R. Cummings Collection.

00:44:05

Phil Morse: Now, what about the weather? In the winter, sometimes there'd be a lot of snow. How would you get around during big snowstorms?

Elizabeth Megquier: Well, my father had a pung, but people had sleighs, too. I can't think.

Phil Morse: Were the streets rolled? No?

Miriam Bisbee: Not here. They didn't do anything with 'em when I was a kid. We went with the horse and sleigh. I can remember sometimes the horse would get a ball of snow caught in his hoof, and Dad would have to get out and get a rock off the stone wall and hit it to knock it out.

One of a variety of different-sized sleighs drawn by one
or more horses. This is the famous Libby Sleigh
from Scarborough, ME. 
in North Yarmouth, Maine

00:45:02

Miriam Bisbee: We used to like to ride on the runners of the sleigh. [laughter]

Charlotte Frost: First of all, they had what they called the rollers that would come and roll that down before they had plows.

This is an image of a large double-wide roller being pulled
by a team of four horses. This is an unmarked photo that was
posted on FB on the I grew up in Augusta, ME group.

Phil Morse: I also read where there would be washouts - heavy rains and it would wash out - cause a lot of damage. Do you remember any severe weather, a hurricane or snowstorm, or something that really stands out in your mind, [where] you had to hunker down for two or three days? No?

00:45:57

Miriam Bisbee: I can remember the ice storm of 1928, was it?

Charlotte Frost: '98, wasn't it?

Miriam Bisbee: Well, the most recent one was '98, but I think the first one that I hoped I'd never see another one like it, but I did - we were out of telephone service for most of a week, I guess. But otherwise than that...Well, I know - of course, our road was just a wagon track in the dirt, not much more than that. There were birch trees along some of it. We were gonna go to the school Christmas party the day after this happened, and we started out with the horse and wagon, and we got so far and the birch trees were bent right down over the road. You couldn't get any further.

Phil Morse: Wow. so, did you get to the party?

00:47:04

Miriam Bisbee: No. I don't even know if they held it. [laughter]

Phil Morse: So, if you had a big storm with two or three feet of snow, even with a pung and the horse, it would be tough for them to get through that snow.

Elizabeth Megquier: Oh, surely they couldn't.

Phil Morse: What would you do?

Miriam Bisbee: I can remember one tremendous storm that came the day before Christmas. Christmas Day, George Hill. who was our mail deliveryman, came wallowing through with his horse and sleigh with a big package. I don't suppose it was as big as I remember, because I'm bigger now than I was then. [laughter] A package from our cousins in Harford, on Christmas Day.

00:48:05

Phil Morse: Do you recall what was in the package?

Miriam Bisbee: Well, they were things that the older cousins had had. I think, but they were new to us. We didn't have that big Christmas that you think kids are supposed to have, so it was a big thing to us.

Phil Morse: Nice.

Miriam Bisbee: Sticks in my memory.

Phil Morse: So, did you have to shovel snow?

Miriam Bisbee: Dad never shoveled his paths, He tramped 'em [laughter]

Phil Morse: Just with boots? Or did you have snowshoes?

00:48:53

Elizabeth Megguier: I had snowshoes.

Miriam Bisbee: I never had snowshoes until I grew up and was able to buy 'em myself.

Phil Morse: So, Elizabeth, what was it like putting on and tramping through the snow?

Elizabeth Megquier: It was hard, very hard, because they were old-fashioned snowshoes, not the good ones they have now. Mother got a nice pair of snowshoes from my father for Christmas, but she never snowshoed.

Phil Morse: Charlotte, how about you? How'd you get around in the snow?

00:49:39

Charlotte Frost: Shoveled it, mostly. [chuckles] Just shoveled it.

Phil Morse: did you make your own clothing, your mother's?

Elizabeth Megquier: Yes

Phil Morse: How did that work? How did you do that?

Elizabeth Megquier: The old-fashioned, treadle sewing machine. If you ever had to use one of those, you wouldn't sew very much. [laughter] It was hard. I think Fred [Tracey] has the - is it still in Mother's kitchen?

Aubine Dingwell: Mm-hm.

Elizabeth Megquier: The treadle sewing machine?

Aubine Dingwell: Mm-hm.

Elizabeth Megquier: That was hard to use.

Phil Morse: Where would you get your clothing material? Where would you buy that?

00:50:39

Elizabeth Megquier: Oh, probably given to her or something, hand-me-downs.

Jean Flahive: Your school day, was it difficult or did you enjoy it? What was special about the South Gray Elementary School?

Elizabeth Megquier: I went there for six years, and then I went to junior high at Gray.

Jean Flahive: At South Gray, was it one teacher for all of you?

Elizabeth Megquier: One teacher for six - 

Jean Flahive: Six grades?

Charlotte Frost: Junior high was a new building. They built a new one. They used to call it [Skilling], but they changed the name. Now the junior high is the library. I have a book that shows all the classes.

00:51:37

Jean Flahive: Did you have a favorite subject? Each of you?

Elizabeth Megquier: History.

Charlotte Frost: We had seventh and eighth grade, and that was good. 

Jean Flahive: What about you, Miriam?

00:52:12

Miriam Bisbee: I hated school. [laughter] I would tell my mother anything I could think of was the matter with me so I could stay home. [laughter]

Donald Whitney: Schoolitis!

Miriam Bisbee: I didn't have a friend in the world in school.

Jean Flahive: Too quiet, huh?

Miriam Bisbee: Well, I just wasn't with it.

Phil Morse: Did any of you have pets?

Miriam Bisbee? Oh, lord, yes.

Elizabeth Megquier: Yes, I had a nice dog, a very nice dog.

Phil Morse: What was the dog's name?

Elizabeth Megquier: I can't remember.

Phil Morse: That's all right.

00:52:58

Elizabeth Megquier: Once they got (the) highway by the house, he got killed. He got run over. But he was a very nice dog.

Phil Morse: And Miriam, you had some pets?

Miriam Bisbee: Oh boy, did we! [laughter] My aunt Elsie brought us a pair of cats because she thought that we children ought to have a gentle way of learning the facts of life. [laughter]  Why she thought that would be a problem on a farm, I don't know. [laughter] We had a pair of cats, and the inevitable happened, and they would nest in the hay mound, and we'd find kittens, and we'd say, "Oh, Daddy, let us keep 'em." And I remember one summer when we had eighteen cats and kittens around the place. [laughter]

00:54:04

Phil Morse: Wow!

Rodney Megquier: Will the book be advertised?

Phil Morse: Oh, yeah, it's going to be a middle school early reader chapter book, so it'll be out probably during 2020. The Bicentennial is 2020, so we want to put some things together for the Bicentennial with the Narcissus and stories about -

Jean Flahive: It will be about a young girl from Gray. That will be where the story is set.

00:55:10

Phil Morse: Because of the photograph of Roosevelt on the car [Narcissus], that's kind of what prompted this storyline, because there's a newspaper accounting of a young farm girl tossing a bouquet of sweet peas into the car, into the Narcissus, and that Roosevelt picked up those sweet peas and waved to the girl. and then, on his return trip in 1916, his staff reminded him, as they were approaching Gray, that this young girl had tossed that bouquet two years previous. So, he yelled out to the crowd, when they stopped in Gray: "Is the young girl who threw me the bouquet two years ago here?"

00:55:52

Phil Morse: The newspaper accounting just says that there was no response, but I get goosebumps just thinking about it. That really is the - 

Jean Flahive: That's the farm girl that we're gonna - 

Phil Morse: So, that's what triggered, for me - that is just such a sweet story. The politician that Roosevelt was campaigning for locally, of course, talked about it, because he wanted the press, so he talked about how they'd be talking about that at miking [time] for weeks to come.

00:56:22

Jean Flahive: And I think, Roosevelt, one of the reasons he really remembered her, too, was that she wasn't in Gray, where there was a huge crowd of people. She was outside of town. We don't know exactly where, but, hearing that the trolley would stop for someone, the trolley must've stopped while she gave him - 

Phil Morse: It was in a curve where they would slow down, and there was the farm girl's mother with her, and it slowed down enough, evidently, that she could toss the bouquet. "The New York Times" picked up on that story as well. So, that's the beginning. That was the seed that was planted for me, this would be a wonderful thing.

00:57:04

Jean Flahive: But I'm not sure it's gonna be a curve, because South Gray fits in perfectly, the farm, going through the land and all that.

Phil Morse: It'll be historical fiction.

Aubine Dingwell: They grew sweet peas at the farm, her mother and father. and as years went by, I, as a child...they had beautiful sweet peas, Do you remember?

Elizabeth Megquier: Yes, my father raised sweet peas. He loved those.

Aubine Dingwell: Oh yeah, for years.

Rodney Megquier: Do you remember throwing any sweet peas in the train? [laughter]

Elizabeth Megquier: I just remember he did, but that was when he didn't have so much to do. Then he had a nice garden and raised some flowers, sweet peas.

Aubine Dingwell: Actually, it couldn't have been her.

Female voice: Yeah, because she wasn't born yet, but her aunt -

Phil Morse: They might've slowed down, knowing there was a crossing that the gates were there and cows. So, that might be one of those things where all the motormen knew that, well, we've gotta back off a little bit going through this section, because - 

00:58:28

Elizabeth Megquier:  It didn't seem to me that they did, through [Father's] property. They zipped right through. [laughter] He had to be sure that the gates were closed on both sides because of his - he had pasture on both sides.

Jean Flahive: That was in 1914. Was the aunt a little girl then?

Donald Whitney: No. She was born in 1916.

Jean Flahive: The one that she -

Donald Whitney: Her aunt.

00:59:01

Donald Whitney: Oh, Mildred? Yes, she would've been.

Aubine Dingwell: But she wouldn't have lived down there.

Donald Whitney: No, she would've been up on Colley Hill. But after the train left the station here in Gray, it had to make a slight curve heading towards Auburn.

Phil Morse: Well, it seems to lead that it happened in Gray, and it was a young farm girl with her mother, near their farm.

Rodney Megquier: Yeah, the train wouldn't have been going that fast when it left the station. And [Eddie] might've been slowing up anyway, just looking for Mildred.

01:00:13

Jean Flahive: Her name was Mildred.

Rodney Megquier: Yes, Mildred.

Jean Flahive: Oh, that's weird. I'm naming her Millie. [laughter]

Aubine Dingwell: You're naming her Millie?

Jean Flahive: Yeah.

Phil Morse: We conducted an oral history [interview] in 2004 with a woman who was 96 at the time, in South Berwick, and so, I have this 90-minute transcription - because we videoed it and did audio, and then we had it transcribed. And that woman's name is Mildred in real life, and so that was the first transcription I gave to Jean. so, that's what prompted the name.

01:00:55

Jean Flahive: Colley? How do you spell that hill?

Female voice: C-O-L-L-E-Y.

Jean Flahive: And so that's where the curve is?

Rodney Megquier: Well, yeah, there would be a slight curve around that way, because it's gonna head towards Auburn.

Jean Flahive: - where the curve is?

Donald Whitney: I can show you. It's right about - 

Rodney Megquier: there would've been a crossing there, too.

Aubine Dingwell: Auntie? Did Grammie Colley - did they have sweet peas on Colley Hill?

Elizabeth Megquier: No, I don't ever...know that they did. My grandfather raised apples, had an apple orchard, Granpa Colley, and one year my grandmother filled a barrel full of apples and then shipped it to England. The man was so pleased with the apples that he wrote a note to my grandmother, telling her that he appreciated those apples so much.

01:02:09

Rodney Megquier: - Colley Hill and mother used to hate to have to go pick blueberries at Colley Hill, right?

Elizabeth Megquier: But then my grandfather owned that hill and we had to pick blueberries. There was no other way to do it. And I hated it. [laughter] It took me forever to pick a quart of blueberries, and all I ever got was a dollar for a quart of blueberries.

Aubine Dingwell: That seems like a lot. [laughter]

Charlotte Frost: So, not much happened in my life. Eventually, I got married. And we had one daughter [Sharon Frost McElman], and [Lisa} is my - is she great-grandaughter? Granddaughter had three girls. My nephew had three boys. [laughter] And between them I've lost count of them.

Phil Morse: I think we can wrap it up. I actually have gifts for you. I didn't know there were three, but it just happens that I brought - let me turn this off.

01:03:00

[END]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We continue the restoration work on the 1912, Narcissus, the only surviving high-speed, luxury interurban coach of the Portland-Lewiston Interurban. 

Click Here: Narcissus Restoration-Related Posts

Being more than a century old, the stately, "Elegant Ride," Narcissus, is a gem.  This shimmering precious stone of Maine transportation history is brilliantly resplendent as it emanates so many elements of history, including; time, places, people, and events, that it was coupled to, that when just a smattering of its seemingly innumerable stories are shared, the contents captivates, fascinates, then generates, interest to learn more 🙋. The majestic Narcissus is listed in the National Register of Historic Places.

Please consider joining the epic journey to complete the Narcissus Project by making a donation today!

Click Here: Donation Options

The restoration of this majestic icon of Maine's electric railway history is but one in a series of captivating stories containing an abundance of incredible coalition of narratives.

Click Here: History-Related Posts - Narcissus and Portland-Lewiston Interurban

     The Narcissus is featured in the national Gold Award-winning novel, Teddy Roosevelt, Millie, and the Elegant Ride. The "Elegant Ride" is the Narcissus. Theodore Roosevelt was a passenger on the Narcissus on August 18, 1914, between Lewiston and Portland, Maine, while campaigning for the Progressive Party candidates.

Click Here: Bookstores and Businesses promoting the Narcissus Project

Independent book publisher, Phil Morse, holding
the Gold Book Award Winner plaque for
 the Middle Reader category for The Eric
Hoffer Book Award. Congratulations to
award-winning Maine author,
Jean M. Flahive